13 July 2005 @ 04:30 pm
Identity.  
Okay, so I promised myself I would stay off the topic of the London bombs in my next update, but - well, I can't. Not really. I have other things I want to talk about, but the London bombs are still preying heavy on my mind, so I guess it's not surprising that I still want to talk about them. Well, I still live here, we're still worried, I'm still sitting at the front of the top deck, so... well, there you have it.

But I want to talk about my fanfic plans as well. To this end I'm doing two updates within a few minutes of one another because it seems kind of crazy to jumble my fic-ranting in with my rather more serious ruminations on terrorism, bombings and the like.

Anyway.

Something I don't get is the fuss that people are making about how long it's taking the police to get a positive ID on the victims, especially in comparison to the way things were with 9/11 and how quickly people could be identified there. I can understand this to an extent - the families want to know what's happened and don't want to be left in suspense - but at the same time it seems silly to even try and compare them. The situations are completely different, both in terms of the location of the explosions and forensically. Trying to compare them just seems crazy to me.

For example: the victims of the September the 11 attacks were people traveling on planes, and those working in the World Trade Center and (presumably) the surrounding buildings. Airplanes have passenger rosters, though. Therefore, if someone's name is down on the roster of a plane which has crashed, it's a fair bet that they died. Offices keep records of their employees. They know who should be at work on a particular day, at a particular time - so do all businesses. It's possible, therefore, to get a good idea about who the missing and the dead are almost immediately the terrorists strike.

Not so with an attack on mass transit. It's a totally different scenario.

There's no roster of who was on a particular tube at a particular time. Booking seats on the London Underground? No. Exactly. Same with the buses. You get on, you travel a few stops, you get off. Someone else gets on. People are coming and going all the time. It's impossible for anyone to be sure who they are, where they're going to, what they're doing there (are they meant to be there? Are they lost? Are they running late?). There's nothing to go on, no neatly-typed list of who should have been there. Apart from the drivers, the people on a London bus or a tube train could be anybody at all.

It's no wonder it's taking a while to make identifications, agonizing though the wait must be. Better that the forensic teams and the police get it right now than that they wrongly identify somebody. God knows what consequences that may have. It's not like it's ever going to be an easy matter to positively identify the victims of a terrorist bombing anyway, appalling though the thought is.

To me, it is appalling. I hate to think what kind of conditions the forensic teams are working under. Hate to imagine what the heat wave is doing. I can't help but remember how claustrophobic the tunnels are in the London Underground, or how tightly the trains seem to fit into them. I don't travel on the tube much at the moment, but if I did, I wonder, would I be more apprehensive about going on them than I was and still am about resuming my acquaintance with the Number 68?

No idea. No idea at all.

Call me morbid, but I've been thinking about myself in terms of a missing poster, about the descriptors that would get applied to me if I had been, presumably, killed. I've thought about this before in relation to other disasters, but nothing's ever come quite this close to me before. It wasn't close, really, but all the same... Someone mentioned identifying people by jewelry (a horrible thought, that one). I wear a silver crucifix round my neck near-constantly, except when the job demands I take it off. It never occurred to me that it was an identifying mark, but it could be. I wear glasses, too. And then there's the things I carry... my humorist parents bought me a personalized Winnie the Pooh key fob. How to explain why I use it?

Under the circumstances, identification isn't easy. Not at all. Better that the authorities take their time and get it right than do a quick, sloppy job. Because yes, I'd want to know, but I'd want to know for sure.
 
 
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[identity profile] devida.livejournal.com on July 13th, 2005 04:44 pm (UTC)
girl, i'm the opposite. i'd rather travel on the tube right now than any of the buses.
sounds mad i know, but i've never liked the way that most buses here only have one door to get one and off at, sometimes 2 and some of the big ones have a few. but the point is that it can get very crowded and claustrophobic on those giant red slugs, and i hate feeling that i have no 'out' available.
which is why i travel on the tube a lot. it's quiet (relatively speaking) and there's usually space, even if we are traveling at stupid times of day (early morning and late evening).

i hate to say this, but if people haven't been identified now, chances are they won't be ever. as far as i know it's hard to ID a body that been in an explosion. dental records are the only real way, and if the person has been 'blown to bits' (sorry) then the job of finding out who's who is even harder.
Plus. on the underground bomb sites I've read on Metro how they're having problems with the rats (have you read James Herbert?) as they're trying to retrieve bodies. It's hellish work.
Jewelry could work as a form of ID. But i've read in books on how at the ground zero of detonations the temp reaches something over 7,000 degrees centigrade (which is hotter than space shuttles when they lift-off). so it could be dubious that jewelry would survive.
I'm guessing if you think of 9/11 and The 2 A-bomb sites in Japan there were people who just vanished. and, for their anguished families i'm guessing they'll be forever 'missing'.
which is a sobering thought for us all.

sorry if this has upset you.
xx
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[identity profile] sevendials.livejournal.com on July 13th, 2005 05:29 pm (UTC)
It's just sobering, I guess. Not so much upsetting as just kind of... whoa. I'm not particularly squeamish or the tearful kind (well, I work in the NHS - we don't have time) but all the same, this kind of thing really is a little bit on the worrying side. Not least of which because it's so random.

I know what you mean about the identifying process. Damn trying to be decorous on LJ posts. I know what you mean about the conditions in the tunnels. Rats, darkness, cramped spaces - it's hot down there anyway even without there being a heatwave up above. It sounds like something out of a horror movie. God knows how anyone could manage to work in conditions like that, it's horrifying enough just in the imagination. I'd guessed it'd be hard to identify a body under those circumstances. The minute people at press conferences start bandying about words like 'jewelry', 'DNA testing' and 'dental records' you know things are not just looking bad, they're looking terrible.

I can't use the tubes at the moment. Largely because I live in The Suburb Which Shall Not Be Named (hint: begins with an 'N', rhymes with 'Borewood') and we don't actually have a freaking tube link here. I'd have to go to Brixton and catch the tube from there and it'd probably take even longer than it does to get the bus simply because of waiting for connections and the like. So the tube for me is out, not so much because I want to take the bus (I'd rather get the tube, it'd be quicker... if there was a station near me) but because I live in south freaking London and we don't count.

(I was on the way home on Saturday night and saw some guy reading an article entitled 'Howe to blow up a bus: the chilling video broadcast on the Web' or something. Not what you want to see when stuck on the 68.)

When I move out of here, one of my prerequisites when I'm house-hunting is going to have to be 'Tube station nearby'. I cannot be doing with this bus crap for much longer. Got to admit, the lack of exits is freaking me out, plus in a tube you could get lucky with the carriage you were on. If there's a bomb on the bus, you're going to be near it no matter what. It scares me, but I'm pretending it doesn't while I'm out. So's everyone, really.

But for now I'll get by, I think. I hope. :)
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[identity profile] devida.livejournal.com on July 13th, 2005 06:06 pm (UTC)
i like that!
the whole suburb-that-shall-not-be-named thing.
i know it's from a long time ago but hey.

yeah, i heard that the Bus bomber was sitting on the top deck at the back. which, considering the pictures of the bus post-detonation is a scary thought.
I thought he was on the ground level cos the walls were blown out. Euuuu... don't want to think about it...

working tomorrow though - got to get back in 'boy' mode. I feel like a transformer half the time, y'know?
either that or a lizard that sheds it skin every five days (or six days in this case...)

yeah - i luv the Tank Girl Icon... and people say smoking isn't cool?
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[identity profile] sevendials.livejournal.com on July 13th, 2005 06:31 pm (UTC)
That is a scary thought - not least of which because the people at the very front of the top deck have all been pictured standing up and looking massively freaked. As you would if your bus had just exploded around you. I think I'd probably be more shocked not to be seriously injured in a situation like that. I think some eyewitnesses said he came downstairs before he detonated the bomb, though. I remember that quote largely because it was attributed to a nurse who worked on the ward I'm on placement at... he's a nice guy, but a bit on the flaky side.

I shall refer to it that way from now on if it will save you from feeling desperately homicidal every time I talk about going home. And it may be an old wound, but that doesn't mean it can't still sting. I bet you wouldn't even have considered moving down to this part of town, given the name of the place. Sad, really, because as London bits go, this isn't a bad one. Nice air, nice views, etcetera. But no tube link, which sucks.

I'm not surprised you feel confused having to switch between roles like that. I think I'd be feeling a little baffled in that situation too. It's bad enough having to switch between 'nurse mode' and 'normal mode' without having to switch genders because there are too many Nigerians around. God dammit. One of the third-years on my ward did a placement at Saint P. and she doesn't have a good word to say about it, or about the Nigerians. Apparently they really laid into her after they found out she was a Muslim.

It does not sound like a good hospital to be placed at. Good luck getting through the rest of it... we're getting there at least! :)
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[identity profile] quentin-w.livejournal.com on July 13th, 2005 07:52 pm (UTC)
To have to think of how you would describe yourself as a missing person, a person on a poster is quite a scary thought. I bet it's rather scary thinking how close you were to being a person on a poster...

Heh I'll put my reply to yoour comment on vermachntis's journal here:

Yes its certainly is true that we get mixed messages from humanity. I mean it's appalling that people would want to kill other people just because they are against their beliefs. Is it true that it was a group of Londoners who perpetrated these attacks? B/c if that's true than that's even worse. How could anyone want to perpetrate such acts? It bothers me that people even dream this stuff up or heck even want to do this. You can't help but admire those who risked their lives to help others ot, but you really wonder why stuff like bombings make the news and not the rescue effort.

I guess it's exactly as lots of books describe London with that grim and determined atmosphere about it. Yeah the States are sorta comparing it to the Blitz and all. But you are right, nothing has really changed except for the name of the enemy. But i think even more so, is there isn't a way to distinguish the enemy and that's a scary thought. If it really was caused by London Muslims, then you look at people differently. I hate to see this get blown out of proportion like it did in the States. Immediately after 9/11 people blamed every muslim they saw. I hope that Londoners don't perpetrate that upon he Arab population. B/c revenge only begets revenge and that's when it really becomes a tragedy.

What really bothers me about using religion to "justify" heinous acts is why? I mean why would you want that. Do religions actually profess you do such things. I'm not a christian or a muslim or a Jew, but where in their holy texts does it say, you must eradicate those who don't believe in the same beliefs you do? And it really bothers me that people would want to pick out the differences between people and not the similarities. It just takes stereotyping to an awful level, that breeds violence and hatred.

That's sad that we have to say, we get used to it. like you say, no one should have to.

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It's awful that my first post on your journal is so sad...
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[identity profile] sevendials.livejournal.com on July 14th, 2005 02:44 pm (UTC)
We've had quite a lot of coverage of the rescue efforts over here. In the face of this kind of thing, it's been reassuring to see how ordinary people have reacted. Case in point: one of the patients I work with told me that on the day of the attacks, a lot of medical students and junior doctors were watching the attacks on the News, a call came through asking for people to go and help support casualties on the ground, and every single one of them got up and left for Russel Square. That's just one incident, too.

It is worrying to think that the people who dreamed this up actually lived in England, but I'm not going to let that affect me. These people are normally outsiders, people who are desperate to feel that they belong. They're normally young and confused, to say nothing of easily led - easy targets for fundamentalist leaders. Once again, it's the wrong people who end up dying. I almost feel sorry for them, in a weird kind of way. Almost.

It's obvious just from the acts these people perpetrated, though, that anyone who can do something like this is clearly quite powerfully warped.

I have no idea about the religion thing, but I really don't think that idiots like the people who carried these attacks out represent Muslims in general. I don't see how they can when from what I know of Islam, which admittedly isn't much, this kind of thing flies right in the face of their beliefs. Most religions cannot be used, rightfully, to justify this kind of thing unless the texts are interpreted incredibly loosely indeed. The problem is that in some cases people don't actually know the texts that well, and rely on the mediation of others to define them for them (it also doesn't help that a lot of the messages can be rather vague).

That's when things get twisted, and when the problems start coming in. Almost all religions everywhere encourage free thinking, but some fundamentalist faith leaders don't encourage that - maybe because if people started to interpret the texts in their own way, then their own influence would be diluted and free-thinking goes out the window.

I'm hoping we won't have to deal with that kind of blame game. The thing about London is that is is a very diverse city and nine times out of ten, religion doesn't come into it. People can believe what they want to and that's the end of it - there are some extreme right-wingers out there, but generally speaking I don't feel they represent people like me any more than a suicide bomber represents the views of the average Muslim. I'm hoping that people won't go that route. It's a stupid response. Though it's natural to react to violence with violence, it's not a response anyone with half a cupful of brain would condone. Animals do it but, guess what? We're not animals.

We shouldn't have to get used to it, no. But the alternative - that we live in fear, that we allow ourselves to become so consumed by it we forget how to live - is too awful to contemplate. So we get by. The sad thing is, it's better this way.
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[identity profile] quentin-w.livejournal.com on July 14th, 2005 03:18 pm (UTC)
I agree it is reassuring that people go out of their way to help others, it's like you said, we only wish more people were that way.

I guess one does feel a little sorry that they were manipulated into thinking that they were going to become martyrs.

It seems like the attention always gravitates towards the smaller more extreme groups doesn't it?

that we live in fear, that we allow ourselves to become so consumed by it we forget how to live - is too awful to contemplate. So we get by.
I guess that's what it means to live free, but that always comes with a cost. And I guess the old saying, "Nothing is Free" applies everywhere...

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